Where is your faith?
Welcome to Resilience Talk hosted by
Paul Spencer of Second Nature Solutions.
Let's dive in.
Brandon Giella: Hello Paul.
Welcome back to another
episode of Resilience Talk.
Today is a a different kind
of conversation, if I may.
Today is July 8th, 2025.
There are a lot of things in
the world today that people are
experiencing feeling, thinking about.
And so I wanna set the table
for listeners, invite you to
this meal that we're having.
This is a very wide ranging
conversation, but it will make sense.
So today, July 8th, there are
different points of chaos and
risk that people are experiencing.
And it could start with the floods
in Texas where a hundred people die.
It could start more closer to home.
For some people where they're
experiencing loss of a loved
one, they're experiencing climate
change, if you will, fires, they're
experiencing anxiety about their jobs.
We're having a somewhat of a slowdown
in the economy today due to many
different reasons they could experience.
Um, uh.
Let's say social divisions or
immigration raids, or they could
be experiencing financial loss.
There's just so many different
aspects of of life that people are
experiencing and it can feel very heavy.
And I'm experiencing different things, you
know, uh, just personally, I know you are.
A lot of people listening are, and
there's this sense of anxiety or
hopelessness that almost everyone
I talk to is feeling this way.
We had a, a weekend at, at church a couple
weeks ago where the pastors were just
like, Hey, let's just pray for each other.
Like, what is going on in your
life from, from the stage?
What is going on in your life?
Let's share.
And every person that talked was just
this devastating thing, one after
another, and it felt so heavy and it
in times like these, it creates this
sense that we have to clinging to
something and feel this sense of like
resilience because we need hope and
we need faith in a time like this.
And there's this scene in the Crown.
From a couple of seasons ago where this
nun is walking into a room, I think
it was a nun walking into this room
and she's like, how is your faith?
That's what she said.
How is your faith?
Paul Spencer: Hmm.
Brandon Giella: And I know Paul,
you and I have talked a lot over the
last couple of weeks of, we've had
so many wide ranging conversations,
but you keep going back to that.
Where is your faith in a time like this?
So Paul, tell me about.
The things that you're thinking about
these days and how your faith is
integrating maybe into this world, into
this season that so many people are
feeling, and what's drawing you back to
that sense and how folks might be able
to have that faith, that hope, that
love to get them through a hard time.
And of course, it will
impact things in the future.
And how we're thinking about our
businesses in this tumultuous period.
It could be ai again, could
be climate, energy crises.
It could be, you know, different issues
within their business that they're
facing, the economy, tariffs, so on.
What is it for you that your
faith takes you into this place
and, and how do you navigate it?
Where is your faith today,
Paul, in, in this season?
Paul Spencer: Uh, uh, so I would
hope that I have high faith and I
hope to practice, uh, high faith.
Uh, there's always room
for improvement for sure.
Um, and I think just going
back to what you were just
saying is that are all feeling.
With the age of transition, right?
Things that are going on that we've
talked about already, it just feels like
it's amplified and there's no space,
there's no, there's no calm space.
Um, whether it's geopolitical things
around the world with wars and attacks
and all those things, all the way down
to like what you just said, which is,
could be the flash floods in Texas and,
and the horrific loss of life there.
Or even just like you said at, at
home where we lose a family member.
Right?
Um, and all of that goes
back to where's your faith?
Um, because.
In the end, resilience is
based on faith and hope.
And without those things, it's
very difficult to cope with
whatever is going on in your life.
So even if we were in the age of, uh, the
golden era and things were all awesome
and stable and nothing but good things.
We still have events in our lives
where our business goes under, right?
Or, uh, we have a car crash, right?
Uh, uh, Diego jta, right?
He was
a soccer player, uh, that died
over the weekend, um, unexpectedly
right with his brother.
They're the only two
siblings in the family.
Life is.
Uh, not without knowing their,
their personal situations, but
from the outside life is perfect,
right on soccer team, living the
living the dream, and it's gone.
Um, and so those are the things where
we have to be able to strip, we have
to be able to go through the exercise
and be able to say to ourselves, if
I strip everything away, if I take.
All the material things that I've
worked my butt off for and I take
away my house, my home, and then I
take away my money and my wealth.
And for a lot of us, um, especially as, as
business owners, um, we, we have, um, some
identity built into that as an owner and
as for some of the toys that we may get.
As maybe part of the
privilege of ownership.
And that doesn't mean fancy cars and
big house and yacht, but, uh, there's
a different perspective in the world,
like what we've talked about before.
You have a different wisdom to
share when you operate as an owner.
And those are blessings.
Um, but we also have a
strong identity into that.
And so when that business goes away,
um, there's lots of owners that have
a difficult time of dealing with that.
It's really difficult, um,
because my identity's now gone.
Now my, my business and people knew me
as this, this awesome business owner.
And how's your business?
And, and when that's gone, uh,
it's like taking away myself,
right?
My soul.
Um, and so then that goes back to
the question of where's your faith?
Um.
Then again, just kind of going
through that, take away the wealth,
our material things, and then we
take away what was most likely, most
dear to us, and that's our family.
And it's just left.
You're just left right
with nothing.
And we say, where's your faith?
Um, because nothing is ever perfect.
Uh, I think we've talked
about this before.
When we're, when we're running a
resilient business and we're thinking
about all these things that Paul talks
about and processes and risk management,
that doesn't mean that you win and it
doesn't mean that it's a happy path.
And if you do it right, if you do
it just like Paul says, or if you
read these four books, you'll,
and you do 'em just like that.
It will be perfect for you, right?
You can do all those
things and still, fail
Brandon Giella: Mm.
Paul Spencer: and lose everything, right?
And the last thing that you have, the
only thing that you have is your faith.
And that is the only pillar, right?
That you have that goes through you.
Out, up, right straight
to God that says this.
Is all I have, right?
It's all I have.
All I have is a relationship with him.
All I can do is rely on him.
And, uh, and it's up to him
even if I don't like it and
I don't like the outcomes.
Um, and that is, that faith, um, will
allow me to have some hope that even
though it's, it's, full of despair
and loneliness and not much fun.
Is I still have hope
and that hope is that there's
something on the other side, right?
That regardless of all the things
that are going on in the world,
um, and with me personally, that
there's something else, right?
Something bigger than me, um, and
God has something in store for me
besides just this, and that is hope.
Right.
Um, and those are the two
things that without those
things it's really hard to love.
And I know in society today, especially
in our world today, um, we're asked to
love and to love and we can do that.
But it does feel there's a
lot of hopelessness behind
the asks of love, right?
And you can't force people to love,
but you can have faith and hope that.
That there will be love, right?
Um, so those are different
virtues, obviously, um,
within, um, where's your faith?
Um, but I think it's worth the thought,
uh, for you all listening, um, to take
the exercise and to say, where's my faith?
And when it's all
stripped away, where am I?
And if that doesn't feel very good.
And I wouldn't expect it to feel great and
I wouldn't feel, expect it to feel good.
But if you know that
there's a gap there, right?
And I, I don't really know where
my faith is, or I don't have a
strong faith, or I've lost hope, um,
then that's a place to go to work.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
I like that you ended on the word work,
because in my mind I could hear people
thinking this sounds a bit woo woo.
You're talking about
love and faith and hope.
Um, but it, but this, what you're
describing is actually very difficult.
There's a phrase that people describe.
Uh, the true philosopher is someone
who, when a tyrant comes into
town, they can pick up all their
belongings in like a suitcase, head
outta town, and they can be content.
Paul Spencer: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Brandon Giella: you have this faithful
person who endured the worst suffering
and they, they were content with the Lord.
Paul Spencer: Yeah.
Uh, maybe just real quick, and
not to interrupt you, uh,
but content is one thing.
Uh, did he like it?
Did he suffer?
Did he cry?
Did he wonder why?
of course.
right.
That's who we are.
Um, but he still had the faith.
Right.
Brandon Giella: And there's also,
there's contentment and then there's joy.
Can you, because, because the
Bible instructs, you should
have joy in your sufferings.
Take joy that you are
suffering in this moment.
James says that.
Paul says that,
Paul Spencer: Yes.
Brandon Giella: that
sounds really difficult,
Paul Spencer: Yeah, of
Brandon Giella: but, but that's the point.
It takes work and I'm, I'm, I'm
curious like what your thoughts
are on, like, this is really tough.
I mean, I, I'm, I'm going
to a counselor on Thursday.
I, I'm in therapy, you know, because to
do this kind of like really intense soul
work, especially as a business owner, um.
That is not easy, and this is
not something you can just like
do overnight and here's the six
step plan to do this and that.
I mean, it takes years of really plumbing
the depth of who you are as a person
and how that affects you as a father,
as a mother, as a business owner.
Um, so talk to me a little bit about that.
Maybe, maybe that's a good
place to start as like.
Where, where do you even begin to
like find where your faith is and
like who you are as a person in this
day, as an owner, as a, as a person.
Trying to just navigate the
complexities of the world right now.
Paul Spencer: Yeah.
Uh, well, I think that's, that's
different for each person.
Um, but I would say that, uh.
The gift of awareness right, is
a miracle in our lives, right?
Um, and so just by hearing the first
several minutes of what we've been
talking about is the gift of awareness.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: And so now it's been, um.
Articulated in a way, and maybe you
don't quite get it, but you hear it.
Um, and you know in your heart
where your, where your faith is,
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: right?
And you may be agnostic, right?
You may be an atheist, you may be a a,
uh, um, may a passive believer, or you
may be a strong believer, um, but you
know in your heart, because God gives
us that consciousness in our heart.
To know where we stand, right?
Um, and so that's the awareness that
hope to give to you, anybody who's
listening, and then it's up to you to
understand what that means for you.
Um, and, uh, I would say,
and even maybe even challenge
you, that you know what it is.
You know the
answer.
I don't know the answer.
Uh,
Brandon Giella: Hmm,
Paul Spencer: Brandon
doesn't know the answer.
You know the answer because God has
probably told you a number of times,
um, and whether you are listening or
not, you may not have taken the advice.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: Um, so and so
what does that look like, right?
Again, that's up to you and
your circumstance and, uh, and
really, uh, again, just saying,
you know, you know what it is.
So that could be, that could look like.
Um, uh, a long lost friend or relationship
or relative, um, that you haven't
been in touch with in a long time,
but it's been on your heart for a long
time to rekindle that relationship.
Right?
And who knows why and who cares?
The reaction of, hey, never haven't.
Where have you been?
Right?
Um, but.
Uh, who knows what will open up, right?
If you follow your heart
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: and following your heart
means that, uh, God has given it to you
for whatever reason, and who knows what
will show up in that, in that time, right?
So that's, that's one example.
Another one could be.
That maybe there's a group, uh, maybe a
friend of yours or maybe that something
that you've seen either in your church
or in your business, um, groups,
networks, uh, that you've been invited
to a number of times and you've never
gone, um, because of whatever reason.
Um, and maybe it's on your heart
that now that you have this gift of
awareness that you've always felt that.
You've wanted to go or
you should have gone.
Right.
And we don't always wanna, should on
each other, but, uh, and, and so maybe
it's now taking that step to go do that.
Right?
Um, or maybe it's, you know, I spend
a lot of time with lots of different
people, lots of different groups.
Um, I have good relationships,
but you know, Paul, I don't
have any time for myself.
And, uh, and so maybe there's some
alone time that you can give yourself.
Um, and that one's a little harder
because, uh, the one, the other
ones I described are kind of in your
heart, meaning you have this kind
of tug that maybe I missed out or
something, or I really wanna do that.
But I, um, where the things for yourself
are a little harder to, to realize.
Uh, but again, the gift of
awareness right now is, uh, there
can be some time for yourself.
Go for a walk, read a book, drive away
somewhere, and sit on a park bench, right?
And just give yourself some time.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: Um, and that, those
are things that silence, right?
Reflection, those are all spiritual.
Methods, um, of increasing your
faith and just, just, just relaxing.
Right.
Um, so those are, those are a
few things that come to mind.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
What comes to mind for me is poetry.
Paul Spencer: Hmm.
Brandon Giella: What I mean by that
is, uh, you can't read poetry quickly.
You have to sit and stop and look at
the words and let them kind of sit with
you, and you have to mole 'em over.
You know, you can't read
it like you would an email.
Paul Spencer: Mm-hmm.
Brandon Giella: And there's this
great book by a guy named John
Mark Comer, and it's called The
Ruthless Elimination of Hurry.
And he says that Hurry
is not of the devil.
Hurry is the devil.
Paul Spencer: Hmm,
Brandon Giella: And he's
quoting somebody else.
But he's got this great thing called
practicing the Way that talks about
silence and Sabbath and solitude and all
these practices of, of the spiritual life.
But my, your, your point on awareness
makes me think that you have to stop.
Moving for a minute to be
able to have that awareness.
Like there's all these things that
are going on outside, inside, you
know, in your soul, in your heart
and your mind, but also around you.
I've got a two and a half year
old and a five week old baby.
I've got my wife and
a business, thank you.
But the, if you, but it is very,
very difficult to slow down.
To make space and margin in your life,
especially as a business owner, to be
able to even begin to think about and
have the awareness and the presence of
mine to sit with your own thoughts and
your own being who you are on the inside.
I think it was Blaze Pascal that said that
the, the, the stem of the chief problem
of for all men is that they're not able
to sit in the room quietly by themselves.
And I, and I think there's something to
that and how do you even begin to like.
Stop and slow down.
When you're running a business, you're,
you're, you know, you've got a family,
you've got a spouse and kids, and you
got baseball practice on Thursday,
and you gotta run and do, you know,
Paul Spencer: Yep.
Brandon Giella: you know, you
just drum yourself up.
How do you stop?
Paul Spencer: Yeah.
So there's a, there's a thing
that probably most of you have
seen, um, especially if you work
with me, is the wheel of Life
Brandon Giella: I, yeah.
Paul Spencer: on there,
like, it's a, it's a wheel.
And then each spoke is a 1-10 right?
And then it has fitness, um, maybe.
Intimate relationships, friendships, um,
spiritual life, um, business life, right?
There's a whole slew of
things that go around there.
And the concept of it is you score
yourself as a snapshot in time, right?
And if you have some eights and
some nines and some sevens and
some sixes and a four, and then
some eight and a nine, and you
draw the wheel, you can see
that you got a flat tire, right?
And if you're to roll that wheel, it'd go.
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: So it gives you an
opportunity to, again, create some
awareness to say, oh, look, you know,
in my spiritual life, maybe there's,
maybe there's more things that I can do.
Because, uh, it's very natural
actually for all of us to say,
geez, I want to go to the gym.
I wanna go for a walk.
I wanna ride the bike.
I wanna get in better shape.
And so we can create
that, those goals, right?
And, and.
Business, I gotta be able to have
one-on-ones and I gotta make sure I get a
board and think about all these strategic
things that I'm gonna do with my business.
And, um, I'm gonna take Mandy
out for dinner once a month.
And those are tangible things that we
can implement, if you wanna call it that,
to, to make our wheel a little smoother.
The, the one thing that's more
intangible that you just described
is the spiritual side of things.
Right, which is, it does
force you to, to slow down
in order to get that, move that number up,
right?
You have to intentionally say,
I'm gonna let go today with all
the things that I have swirling
around me in my business, and I'm
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
and
Paul Spencer: I'm gonna take
15 minutes to go pray, right?
Or I'm gonna take 15 minutes
just to go for a walk.
Outside of the office
through the beautiful trees and path
that we've got in the, in the back
of our office, which I have never
seen because I'm always busy in front
of the computer and on the phone.
Right?
And I can take that 15 minutes,
um, to pray, to reflect, to
relax, and give myself permission
not to think about anything.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: Right.
And so when you, when you, your
question was, is what does it take?
It takes courage
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Hmm.
It
Paul Spencer: It takes courage to
be able to say the business will
be here tomorrow, the work will
be here tomorrow and the next day.
If I spent the next 24 hours, 72 hours,
120 hours, I will not be done with work.
There will still be
work at the end of that.
Right.
And so, um, to have courage, to be able to
say, you know what, I'm gonna let that go
and I'm going to take some time for myself
and I'm gonna say, where's my faith?
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: Um, and you'll be amazed
to how much, uh, everything else on that
wheel goes when you have a high, uh.
Uh, evaluation of yourself,
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: of spiritual
side of things, right?
If you, If
you rate yourself as a
10 or even a 12, right?
We could go, uh, go to 11, right?
On our, on our scale and everything
else is, is less than that.
Um, when you have high faith,
high spiritual awareness, right?
Um.
You have the courage to give
yourself that time and that space
to be able to, to build that up.
Everything else is much simpler and you
become different those around you, uh,
either at home, um, or in our family, our
friendships or our work relationships.
Um, they, uh, they notice
a difference in you
for sure.
Yeah.
Brandon Giella: Can confirm.
I, I want to emphasize this
is not for the people who read
poetry on a Tuesday afternoon.
This is for.
People that are running businesses.
I mean, I've, I've got an
insurance application I need to
fill out for compliance purposes.
I've got 101 emails in my inbox, and
among them are a private equity deal.
I've gotta get back to clients.
I gotta put plans together.
I'm running a team.
You know, there's, there's,
and for you, I know there's a
million things you need to do.
There's millions of dollars at stake
for the leaders listening and, and,
and, and their families and, and.
Putting business, you know, put putting
bread on the table because
of their businesses.
And yet the spiritual, quiet soul
work is actually some of the most
important things they could be doing
for their business, for their families.
Paul Spencer: Yeah.
Yeah.
When we do, when we do executive
coaching, um, nine times outta 10,
uh, it goes back to time for yourself.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: Uh, so, uh, how do they, how
do I become an, uh, an effective leader?
How do I become more efficient in my work?
How do I handle all the things
that you're just talking about?
There are tools and tactics and different
ways of having conversations, but in
the end, the question is, is how much
time are you you providing for yourself?
And really that most of the time.
The answer is, I don't know
what you're talking about.
What do you mean time for myself?
Like, that's not even a consideration.
Um, but that's, that's where you start.
And then that goes back to right, once
you have some more time, you have some
more reflection, then you can start
asking yourself, where's my faith?
Uh, because it's at that point in
time where you can really start
to see what's going on around you.
Right.
How are you leading your family?
How are your kids?
What is their wellbeing?
Right?
How are the people around me?
From a coworker perspective, if you
can slow that down by having some
time for yourself, you'll start to
see those things around you, right?
And then, uh, your faith will, will play
a lot into, uh, how you, how you handle
where you wanna go with those things.
Brandon Giella: With the last few
minutes that we have left, how do
you see these practices, even if you
will, and thinking about our faith
in the future of how it affects
people's businesses, the resilience?
I mean, we've talked before about ai.
We've talked before about conflicts
overseas, about social strife.
There's a thousand different
ways you could take this, but
what is the value of somebody
implementing these practices now for.
Future benefit amidst this, this age of
transition, this kind of like chaotic
environment we find ourselves in.
Paul Spencer: Um, it's, it's,
well, it's a little bit like
the matrix, so the more, um,
the more, uh, so in, uh, when
we do the energy coaching.
Right.
There's, there's the different levels
and, uh, not all of you're gonna
be familiar with this, but, um, the
lower, the lower levels of energy, and
these are, these are just, it's just a
construct to be able to understand how
you interact with the world and what your
reactions and motions are.
So if we think about level one, level
one is somebody who is a victim.
And that energy is very palpable.
Somebody who says, oh, you know,
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: like, ugh.
It's always happens to me.
Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.
Paul Spencer: no matter what, oh yeah, and
then, and then you are never gonna believe
this, but this happened to me again.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: And of course, right.
And then you have the, the other
energy level, which is also a
low resonating, which means it
takes energy away from people.
When you interact with
somebody like that, it's okay.
It's not wrong necessarily, and
you can give them some empathy
and some compassion, but if that's
the way that they live, it's very
draining for the other person.
Right.
Um, another one that's very draining is
somebody who is very aggressive, right.
Maybe more conflict oriented.
Um, somebody who has more anger.
So instead of saying, oh yeah,
it's, it's more like, I can't
believe this is happening to me.
Right.
People are crazy.
I, I am not putting up with this anymore.
And if you're, if you're
getting in the way.
I'm gonna take you down with
me and there's no way you're
gonna talk to me that way.
There's no way you're gonna, and no matter
what happens in their lives, it's always
a conflict and you're never gonna beat
that person, and that's their mentality.
You cannot beat me even if I have to.
Like just go at you.
Right.
And that's very draining to be able,
and again, not wrong in certain
situations and certain times of life,
but if it's the way you are, it just
sucks the life out of everybody else.
It's just very draining.
Right.
So when you're, again, going
back to the faith idea.
Is more of a, a, a faith is, a high
faith is that things happen around you
kinda in this matrix way and you're
more, uh, you have a better coping
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: what's going on.
Not that, it's, not that it doesn't
matter, but you have different, you
have a different hope and faith lens
about why things are happening, and
even if you don't understand why
they're happening and it's terrible.
Just take the, the floods
in, in Texas, right?
And that counter of deaths with
the, especially with the children,
is just heartbreaking.
Right.
Um, and you don't need understand why,
and you, you actually read the news
and now it's like, uh, who's, who's
gonna be held accountable for this?
And
Right.
And we're talking about, uh,
something that likely is not
all that preventable, right?
Maybe there could have been
different decisions, but at the time.
Yeah.
And so, uh, do I still have faith and hope
in the world, even though that happened?
That's where your faith comes in, right?
Uh, if I lose hopelessness and I get angry
and I become a, or I become a victim of
what's going on, it's like, uh, well, you
know, I might be taken away in the next.
Catastrophic
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Paul Spencer: uh, it's not gonna serve you
and it's not gonna serve those around you.
And so when you have a strong faith,
you have more of a understanding of how
you cope with it and how you pray for
those people, how you pray for yourself,
um, and you leave it up to our father.
It's not up to us.
No matter how much we press on it and
get angry about it or whatever else,
it's up to him and we, we, we let it go.
Right?
And if we can let it go and let
him have it and let Jesus take
it, then that is a big difference
in how we operate in our lives.
Brandon Giella: Amen.
I'll leave it with that.
I think this is.
Some of your most important work, and I,
and I'm, I'm saying this now, you know,
realizing how difficult it is to just be
a business owner in this world, a
father, a husband, and I can do all the
technical, tactical things in the world,
but if I don't have this, what you're
describing as faith and this kind of
centered being, I don't have anything.
Paul Spencer: Yes, that's right.
And like you said,
right, it takes work, it
takes discipline, and it takes others.
You can't, it's very difficult
to do it by yourself,
and really it's hard to do it by yourself.
And this is one of the.
Um, one of the capitals
that we talked about,
Brandon Giella: We
talked
Paul Spencer: about intellectual
capital, social capital, right?
Spiritual capital.
And without the spiritual
capital, it's very difficult
to move through there.
You can be an academic, you can
have a high intellectual capital,
very smart, very knowledgeable.
Um, but you, in order to gain
a lot of wisdom, you have
to have spiritual capital.
You have to have spiritual capital.
Um, and you can have social groups,
high social network, high social
capital, um, without spiritual capital.
Um, you tend to wonder are those,
are those social networks really
serving me and serving others?
Right.
Um, so it, it, it's, it
feeds into all of that.
Brandon Giella: That's right.
That's right.
You can be humbled if you don't
have the spiritual capital.
You can have all the intellectual or
financial or social capital in the world,
and if you don't have the spiritual,
you can be humbled very quickly.
That can go away.
Paul Spencer: Or Yeah.
Yeah.
You're, yeah.
You, you lack the ability to be humble.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Yeah.
Paul Spencer: and pride and ego takeover.
Brandon Giella: That's right, Paul.
Thank you.
I, I would love to keep talking about
this and I know we'll have some, some
more resources coming out, um, about it.
But, uh, I, I highly encourage
anybody listening to, to
reach out to Paul and talk.
With him about these things that
we've talked about it personally,
uh, many times over the years.
And, um, it's always like coming back to
like the most important things in life.
And so I, I highly recommend
reaching out to Paul and, and
working through these things.
And I know we'll talk about
it again in the future.
'cause we are in that age of
transition where it's becoming
increasingly, increasingly important.
So Paul, thank you and
we'll talk again soon.
Paul Spencer: All right.
Check you later.
